Is Your Goal Setting Killing Your Ministry?

Dr. Gabby Cudjoe Wilkes: A Brooklyn-based pastor, church founder, and the Director of the Technology and Innovation and Digital Engagement Lab (TIDAL) at Union Theological Seminary. Her doctoral work is in innovation, and she brings a wealth of experience in leading nimble, fast-iterating ministry in a modern context.
Trey Wince: The president Ministry Architects who guides strategic direction by focusing on church systems, habits, and looking ahead to the future needs of the non-profit landscape.

Key Insights & Discussion Points

Many churches approach goal setting with good intentions, but the methods often miss the mark.

The 1-Year vs. 10-Year Horizon: Brandon shares a key piece of advice he received: “People overestimate what they can do in one year and they tend to underestimate what they can do in 10 years.” The real power lies in consistency over a longer timescale.
A “Dusty Fancy To-Do List”: Trey offers a provocative take, saying that while goal setting is important, the way it’s often practiced doesn’t work. It becomes a list we check once a year, adding “a bunch of shame to people who already have plenty of shame.”
Years of Questions vs. Years of Answers: Dr. Gabby introduces a profound framework from Zora Neale Hurston: “There were years that asked questions and there are years that provide answers.” Some years, despite our best plans, will leave us with more questions than answers, and we need the grace to accept that.

Instead of focusing only on the final number, the key is to build the systems and habits that lead you in the right direction.

Focus on Habits, Not Just Hopes: The most effective way to reach a goal is to identify the habits that lead there and put them on the calendar. As Trey discovered with his own family planning, a goal isn’t real until it’s scheduled.
Celebrate What You Want to Replicate: This is a game-changer for church culture. Trey notes, “Organizations get good at whatever gets celebrated.” Instead of just talking about the goal, constantly celebrate the people and behaviors that align with it. This creates momentum and reinforces what matters in a positive, shame-free way.
The Power of “Daily-ish”: Perfection is the enemy of progress. The concept of doing something “daily-ish” provides the breathing room and grace needed to maintain consistency without getting derailed by a single missed day.

The Immersion Approach: Dr. Gabby champions this powerful leadership tool with the principle, “You can’t be what you can’t see.” To inspire your team with a bigger vision, take them to experience innovation firsthand, whether at a conference, another church, or even a business like Nike.
Pick a “Weird Metric”: Metrics don’t have to be limited to attendance and budgets. Trey gives leaders permission “to pick a weird metric” that is playful and captures the imagination.
- An opera house struggling with fundraising started counting standing ovations. This metric told a story of impact that inspired donors, and the money followed.
- A small church measured success by counting the number of people who pledged (including children pledging $5) or the number of dinners people had together.
Re-imagine Quantification: If you aren’t hitting your numerical targets, Dr. Gabby suggests you re-imagine how you measure impact. Tell the stories of the lives you are changing and consider the ripple effect of that influence.

Invite People in Early (and Speak Last): To get true buy-in, involve your team in the goal-setting process from the beginning. Dr. Gabby advises that as the senior leader, you should “try to kind of speak last or speak less” to allow the team’s ideas to surface without being overshadowed.
Listen for “We”: One of Dr. Gabby’s most insightful “weird metrics” for team ownership was listening for the moment her leaders shifted from saying “they” (the pastors and staff) to “we” when talking about the church’s work.
The Challenge of New Churches: For a church plant without a long history, momentum is critical. Dr. Gabby explains, “You have to iterate much faster because people don’t know… yet if they can trust you and your credibility, it’s still being vetted.” This requires making tough leadership decisions more quickly.

The conversation closes with a powerful reframing of ministry life and death.

The Right Prescription: Dr. Gabby offers a brilliant metaphor: Good goal setting isn’t the key to not dying, it is “the key to identifying the right prescriptions.” It’s the diagnostic tool that helps you assess the health of your organization so you can take the right steps forward.
From Immortality to Resurrection: The goal isn’t to prevent death, but to embrace resurrection. Sometimes, a ministry or program needs to die for something new and healthier to be born. Trey quotes Megan DeWalt: “Christians are called to resurrection, but we keep focusing on immortality.”

Here are three direct actions you can take after listening to this episode:

Become a Collector of Good Stories. Trey’s challenge: “Spend 15 minutes identifying three people who are doing something really well in your organization and just… jot down a story.” Make it a habit to brag about your people in front of others.
Don’t Cancel on Yourself. Dr. Gabby’s advice: If you schedule time for your own development, planning, or reflection, honor that commitment with the same energy you would for a meeting with someone else.
Schedule One Habit. Look at one of your ministry goals. Instead of just writing the goal on a whiteboard, identify one small, recurring habit that will move you toward it. Then, schedule that habit on your calendar for the next month.

“Organizations get good at whatever gets celebrated.” – Trey Wince
“You can’t be what you can’t see.” – Dr. Gabby Cudjoe Wilkes
“We are resurrection people. So… we shouldn’t be afraid of death, even when it comes to our beloved organizations.” – Dr. Gabby Cudjoe Wilkes
“You have permission to pick a weird metric.” – Trey Wince
“Christians are called to resurrection, but we keep focusing on immortality.” – Trey Wince (quoting Megan DeWalt)

Book: Psalms for Black Lives by Rev. Dr. Gabby Cudjoe Wilkes and Rev. Andrew Wilkes